The Zeitgeist Movie
January 8, 2009 by ThoughtRocket
Steve Clayback has been an avid American Dream Project researcher. He sent us this link back in December and after watching it, I felt compelled to post it as “food for thought” to the Blog. We will be posting more of Steve’s findings in the future. Thanks Steve!
- Candie Perkins
From Steve’s comment on Demand Ethical Leadership
“All I can add is that things have actually been worse than many of us have thought and we have been duped for a long time by those at the top. Sure, it has gotten to the point of total excess and therefore even the uninformed are starting to get the picture. But to really get an idea how much and how long we have been duped check out http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com. View the movies (free) and also print out the transcripts. If this doesn’t open your eyes and incite you to take action, nothing will and you better check your pulse to see if you are alive.”
This movie is evil. It’s attack on Christianity actually diminishes it’s credibility on the “false flag” and “federal reserve” issues.
I can’t believe that ADP would be associated and promoting this movie. This movie makes a feeble attempt to prove God a liar.
Give me a break. I’m unsubscribing.
I will say a couple things on this movie. Remember, EVERYONE, has an agenda. Lastly, just be careful with this one, it’s very subtle and very easily overlooked while watching it. There are a number of things in this movie that will get you swayed away from the core. Be careful.
There are a lot of controversial points of view out there. Sometimes, even if we can not agree with much of what they say, many of them make at least a few points that are worth consideration and which would not be considered otherwise. I have allways thought the way of the open minded skeptic to be best; considering all points of few and filing them away for comparison against our own experience. In this way we avoid the trap of turning a blind eye to that which makes us uncomfortable, but we also avoid the trap of blindly following ideas that are not so well conceived.
I think that Steve has brought us something valuable because it causes us to review and challange our perception of the world, whether or not we agree with it in the end.
“valuable because it causes us to review and challange our perception of the world, whether or not we agree with it in the end.”
Why not pornography too then.
I’m sorry. I have been subscribed to ADP for some time, and I agree with, and have been inspired by much that has been written here. This site should not be promoting this movie.
It just doesn’t fit. What can be the fruits of it? You have posted something that could be damaging and dangerous to many.
What can be the fruits? Please reconsider.
If this kind of thing belongs here then perhaps I don’t.
I would like to hear Mr. Marre comment on this.
I am disappointed that this movie, while it comtains a lot of good info, is includinf some reallt inaccurat info as well. And I observe some of the sme tacyics that I see employed on talk radio. I fear it will turn off many potential converts as well as some of us who are the choir.
I hope the producers will clean it up.
Good idea, questionable execution.
I personally thought the Zeitgeist movie was full of a lot of great information and gave the viewer a lot of things to think about…much the same that Michael Moore’s documentaries have done. Although many will not agree with concepts presented and some comments may be one-sided (as most documentaries are), it gives us different perspectives to consider and ultimately strengthens our beliefs or challenges our beliefs in many timely and/or controversial topics.
Thanks for posting this as I had not seen or heard about this movie before. Also, I don’t feel that, like some of the other commenters have posted, the ADP is in any way promoting this movie. I have always felt that the ADP has given me things to think about and consider even when I don’t necessarily agree with some of the posts or topics presented. (ie. McCain/Obama posts, etc.) Thanks for operating this blog and for continually providing new and enlightening information. I look forward to my emails every week and although I don’t regularly comment, I do read each and every post on this blog.
One more thing…I also feel like the ADP has been a place to discuss/read all kinds of information. We all have differing opinions and it is OK to express them and learn from others comments (which on this blog can be enlightening as well), as I often do on this blog.
This movie uses graphic images of death and dismemberment of children to get your attention, then uses some truth delicately mixed with error to feed on the natural fear and distrust of government to hook you.
Then once hooked, tries to convince the viewer their religion, faith, Christ, God is a lie too.
It offers NOTHING of hope, or inspiration, but attempts to strip hope from those immature enough in their walk to fall victim to it.
And all of this a couple clicks away from typing “the american dream” into a search engine?
Is this site promoting atheism?
What does this movie have to do with the “American Dream”?
I’m Done
First of all…I am in no way promoting this Zeitgeist Movie, but the continual negative comments keep prompting me to reply as well. This morning I found this on the Zeitgeist Movement website, and I thought it was a good explanation of their goal. I would have just posted a link, but I am not really sure how to do that…
“The Goal:
The Means is the End:
We intend to restore the fundamental necessities and environmental awareness of the species through the avocation of the most current understandings of who and what we truly are, coupled with how science, nature and technology (rather than religion, politics and money) hold the keys to our personal growth, not only as individual human beings, but as a civilization, both structurally and spiritually. The central insights of this awareness is the recognition of the Emergent and Symbiotic elements of natural law and how aligning with these understandings as the bedrock of our personal and social institutions, life on earth can and will flourish into a system which will continuously grow in a positive way, where negative social consequences, such as social stratification, war, biases, elitism and criminal activity will be constantly reduced and, idealistically, eventually become nonexistent within the spectrum of human behavior itself.
This possibility is, of course, very difficult for most humans to consider, for we have been conditioned by society to think that crime, corruption and dishonesty is “the way it is” and that there will always be people who want to abuse, hurt and take advantage of others. Religion is the largest promoter of this propaganda, for the “us and them” or “good and evil” mentality promotes this false assumption.
The reality is that we live in a society that produces Scarcity. The consequence of this scarcity is that human beings must behave in self preserving ways, even if it means they have to cheat and steal in order to get what they want. Our research has concluded that Scarcity is one of the most fundamental causes of aberrant human behavior, while also leading to complex forms of neurosis in other ways. A statistical look at drug addiction, crime and incarceration statistics, finds that poverty and unhealthy social conditions comprise the life experience of those who engage in such behavior.
Human beings are not good or bad… they are running, forever changing compositions of the life experience(s) that influences them. The “quality” of a human being ( if there was such a thing ) is directly related to the upbringing and thus belief systems they have been conditioned into.
This simple reality has been grossly overlooked and today people primitively think that competition, greed and corruption are “hardwired” elements of human behavior and, in turn, we must have prisons, police and hence a hierarchy of differential control in order for society to deal with these “tendencies”. This is totally illogical and false.
The bottom line is that in order to change things for the better fundamentally, you must begin to address root causes. Our current society’s system of “punishment” is outmoded, inhumane, and unproductive. When a serial killer is caught, most people jump up and down and scream for the death of that person. This is backwards. A truly sane society, which understands what we are and how our value systems are created, would take the individual and learn the reasons behind his or her violent actions. This information would then go to a research department which considers how to stop such conditions from occurring through education.
It is time to stop the patchwork. It is time to begin a new social approach which is updated to present day knowledge. Sadly, society today is still largely based on outmoded, superstitious dispositions and resolutions.
It is also important to point out that there are no utopias or endings. All evidence points to perpetual change on all levels. In turn, it is our personal actions everyday of our lives that mold and perpetuate the social systems we have in place. Yet, paradoxically, it is also our environmental influences which create our perspectives and hence world views. Therefore, true change will come not only from adjusting your personal understandings and decisions, but equally from changing the social structures that influence these understandings and decisions.
The elite power systems are little affected in the long run by traditional protest and political movements. We must move beyond these ‘establishment rebellions’ and work with a tool much more powerful:
We will stop supporting the system, while constantly advocating knowledge, peace, unity and compassion. We cannot “fight the system”. Hate, anger and the ‘war’ mentality are failed means for change, for they perpetuate the same tools the corrupt, established power systems use to maintain control to begin with.”
To William Fottrel: Obviously this is a touchy subject for you because you keep pointing out in your comments that you are done with the American Dream Project…if you are done with the American Dream Project, why do you keep coming back and writing negative comments? This site is far from promoting Atheism…if you would read many other posts, you would see that. What would you propose the ADP do, take down this post???
One of things that love about ADP is that it encourages individual empowerment and responsibility to speak out and act when one feels an obligation to others to do so.
Yes. I’m asking that it be taken down.
God bless you!
I was just about to “attempt” the arguement that the movie does not “rise to the level” I have come to expect from ADP.
However, upon futher consideration, it is clearly MY comments that do not “rise to the level” I have come to expect here.
I feel so passionately against this movie because someone close to me was hurt by it.
“perhaps there is nothing so dangerous as a passionate idiot”
I’m sure someone said that…
I apologize
Thank you Jennifer for posting “The Goal” in your last post.
It really does speak for itself.
Mr. Fottrell,
I respect your right to your feelings and to expressing them. And there is nothing wrong with being passionate about something, unless it is or can be harmful to others. Your passion is obvious based on the number of your responses. You say that someone close to you was hurt by the movie, with no further explanation. In light of your passion, may I be so bold as to ask how this person was hurt and I certainly again respect your right to not answer that question but you have raised my curiosity. I am in no way judging you, just trying to see and understand your perspective more clearly.
My name has been attached to the movie as the person who brought it to the attention of ADP. But all I did was put it out there, if you will, for those who chose to review it and to make their own judgment of the material. I certainly did not claim it was the be all and end all but merely a presentation of some interesting perspectives for consideration. Based on some of the other comments about it, I think others took it for what it was and got what they could or not from it and moved on.
Here is something to think about that I don’t think anyone will be hurt by, some words attributed to Jimi Hendrix: When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
If you change the way you look at the world the world you look at will change. Peace and Love.
Thank you Steve for your kind words and your concern for my point of view.
The movie link was posted for comment, and I (however clumsily) have attempted to express my concerns.
I’m not all that intelligent, and certainly not eloquent, but it seems to me that “The Goal” as stated above in Jennifer’s post is a lot of fancy words repackaging the “original lie” and is clearly from the same source. It seems to me that evil always says “there is no good an evil, right or wrong, good or bad”.
The movie is dangerous and irresponsible….whoops there I go again… sorry
“I’m not a smart man, but I know what Love is”– Forrest Gump
I was recently reading a research report on what we can do to increase our own wisdom. One of the suggestions was that we regularly read things that cause us to stop and think. It’s especially helpful to read things or see things that present an opposite point of view. So the research suggested that people interested in politics should subscribe to things like the National Review, which is highly conservative, and The Nation, which is highly liberal. The purpose of constantly challenging ourselves is that it sharpens our critical thinking.
The post of the Zeitgeist movie was stimulated by a long-time advocate of ADP. He sent it along as something stimulating as opposed to something that he advocated. Obviously I cannot agree with all the comments made on my posts or the posts of others, but that is not the point of engaging in public discussions about important ideas that affect our future. I hope that discussions like ours just help each one of us become more clear on what we should advocate and how we should live in order to make the future better for all of us.
Here is my take on Zeitgeist. I read the transcript so that I would not be distracted by the imagery of the film. The movie makes a poor mistake and pretends to condemn, which is dogmatism. It makes numerous unsubstantiated assertions and draws conclusions unsupported by the full facts or compelling evidence. It begins with the conspiracy theory of the banking system of the Federal Reserve, which is a very old theory. The problem with large-scale conspiracy theories is that they depend on large networks of powerful greedy people all working together for decades. My personal experience with working with big-ego leaders is that they are unlikely to work together for more than a few months, let alone years. This movie also ignores all the good that modern reserve-based banking has created in terms of access to capital, which has allowed millions of entrepreneurs to create products and services of great value that we all benefit from. It has also raised the standard of living for hundreds of millions of people and led to recent innovation such as micro-credit, which some estimate has helped 50 million people out of poverty worldwide. While it also true that our modern banking system is corrupt, that is has effectively monetized the global economy, and it has supported the development and deployment of weapons of mass destruction, I cannot blame the bad things on the system itself. It is our continuing failing as fear-based people that lead to war and exploitation.
The movie’s assertion that technology and one-world government will bring about an endless sustainable world is on its face absurd, and the idea that ending religion and embracing some vague good-vibe basis of spirituality will end our conflicts and judgments of each other has no basis in reality. While religion is certainly responsible for grotesque amounts of judgment, hatred, and murder, these things are not caused by the religion itself but rather the mind and will of human beings who commit these same crimes in the name of their governments or in some times, their businesses. And what is ignored is all the good religion has done for billions of people throughout the ages in terms of giving them hope, optimism, and a nearly universal moral code of the Golden Rule and helping people overcome terrible addictions and destructive habits because of the belief, hope, and good behavior that good religion stands for.
What I do agree with in the movie is that our point is to live nobly and lovingly and to take responsibility for our lives and our decisions. I personally believe that it is unrealistic to think a new rise in world wide consciousness will create a kind of sustainable utopia. On the other hand, we can work harder to create conditions in which more and more people have a chance to live a meaningful and productive life. I believe that we have not worked hard enough at doing this and that we don’t know what the limits will be. But I do know all our choices matter. They matter today, and they especially matter for our children and grandchildren in the future.
Zeitgeist is a provocative work, but each of us must come to find our own best way. To stand for something that matters for us and to use our own best gifts to change our world. At times shaking our fists at the corruption of others is simply a distraction from the harder work of the personal changes all of us need to make. At least that’s how I see it.
There is a lot of information presented in this movie that is disturbing and should be look at with a critical eye, however, much of what is presented is true. The Addendum presents further information on the problems with our instituions and offers some visionary solutions. One of the key interviews in this movie is with John Perkins. I would strongly recommend reading his book, “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.” You will be amazed at what you will learn. We the people need to get a grip on the reality of the situation. I’m afraid more people will experience the American Nightmare then every have any possiblity of experiencing a good American Dream.
I just want to clarify my previous statement. I also found much of the video’s information unsubstantiated and unjustifiable. However, the principal theme of the movie is to not accept authority as truth, but rather truth as authority. And so, in this vain, this movie shouldn’t be taken as truth either but as a source to question. It is critical thinking, self-reflection and research that will lead you to the truth. One needs to be courageous. Challenging long establish myths that we’ve been fed is not easy and can be upsetting but it is sometimes necessary if we want to make sustainable progress.
Along with recommending John Perkin’s book (whom I believe to be credible witness) I would also recommend “The Creature from Jekyll Island” by G. Edward Griffin. This book is about the Federal Reserve. Both books are well written and informative.
Jerry, I agree with you that some information there is valid. I did not agree with the first part, though I think as Will that in the name of the instution (religious, government, social) a lot of harm has be done. But religion, spirituality and a religious institution or corporation or very different things, and that many things in the bible are symbols and should not be taken litteraly but for what the message in them, besides cultural elements, symbols and stories influenced by other cultures than the jewish one.
Furthermore, though the end was a bit far fetch for me. This does not mean that I can learn from it or that is offensive. At this point I see everything with open eyes. The book mentioned by you “confessions of an economic hitman” was recommended to my father a very well known and respect political economics analyst in Mexico by my cousin when he was doing his master in economics in Europe.
We confirmed what we had suspected. When you live in a third world country and you live the devastating effects impossed by world economic organizations leaded by the US and the US gov and from been one of the highest economic growth index emerging economies in the world is crashed (also many countries in latinamerican and at the same time!!!) after the “intervention” of foreing economic and political elites headed by the US, you start to wonder many things. Read this book and you will understand what your government and this groups are capable of. So I am sorry to disagree with you Will. The greedy can work together just check what your fed government, his friends, at the Fed Reserve including NY and CEO’s of the big WS firms just did. Biggest robbery on the people of the US and the world. And no accountability!! The head of fed res in NY was just confirmed!!! when most people retired and do not have a peny they will remember them. 50% losts in just retirement and pensions. Billions of dollars. And now a One World financial order !!! read the wall street journal on this !!! All the pie for a much much much smaller group of people. Makes you wonder.
And about the verychip I though like you it was a mith, but I did my research and no it is not a group of our Mexican Federal officials including our former Attorney General, before my uncle took office, he was implanted with the verichip mentioned in this movie, this was briefly mentioned in some of your newspapers but you may check el universal newspaper of mexico city for a fuller story.
Something else, I will mention to you that a month before the NYSE crash I received an email from a friend in the US that forwarded to me an email written by some American man literally stating that he was informing everyone that his uncle a top US military official alerted him of a big crash of wall street in september. I did not make much of the information but I questioned my cousin about the possibility as he is an expert in stock exchange and he told me that there were European economics that believed that the 1929 crash was not incidental. I did not make much of it until I started to read some that seems somewhat not far from some of things mentioned in this movie.
Regardless I did not enjoy the first part of this movie, and the second part was a compilation of several points I had already read from much more serious sources of information (newspapers, books, etc.) it made a good point: DON’T BE GAULABLE. QUESTION WHAT YOU ARE TOLD! Even though in Mexico and other countries many remember how deceipteful governments are we have also we forget that in our last elections and we are paying for that. We wanted to live in fantasy world. the truth is not what we want to hear many times but we have to look for it . One source is not enough. How will we manage reality if we do not know the truth? some cannot manage the truth. But no one can afford not live in full reality regardless if we do not like it because if you do not know whats really going on you can never fix the problem. Find reliable sources outside your scope.
US citizens have believed to the rest of the worlds surprise that you have the freeist press. I am sorry to inform you that you have the most controled press. The free press from the sixties is long gone! There are things even in Mexico that we know about the US and your government that most people in the US do not know, even books that cannot be published there. But you, not the commentarors, reports, should look outside your usual sources for the truth. Even your web now is more restricted. Many web pages are suddenly not there anymore. In Mexico researches are puzzled by this. I did not know. A friend in a research institute just told me yesterday. Maybe Mr. W Foltrell above is happy that many information in the US is censored. But I am sure this is not the generalize concesus.
My best to you. Maya.
clearification:
The former NY federal reserve president was just confirmed but not in his same position but as the US treasurer. This special interest servant was just promoted!!! As someone mention WALL STREET first, Main street last. When will this change? when the real people that govern the US and now world economy and finances change.
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