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	<title>Comments on: Free College Education for All Americans&#8211;Read Marre&#8217;s Plan</title>
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		<title>By: If I were President &#124; ThoughtRocket Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/free-college-education-for-all-americans/2008/10/15/comment-page-1/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>If I were President &#124; ThoughtRocket Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/?p=259#comment-262</guid>
		<description>[...] Formation of a service for education program. America has earned its economic standing in the world through innovation; electricity, the automobile, the computer, and the Internet to name a few. We also have a need for educated individuals to serve the community as doctors, nurses, and teachers to name a few. Throughout the years, many young men and women have turned to the military as a way to build a future for themselves. Service to country has prepared many of our youth to become responsible citizens, and instilled in them a love of country that is necessary in a healthy society. Education, when offered openly to all who will take advantage of the opportunity, has the potential to be the keystone to balanced equality in our nation. Expanding the definition of service beyond the military, and creating structured opportunities for community service in exchange for education would be a priority in my administration. For other great ideas about expanding education, see Will’s “Free Education for All.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Formation of a service for education program. America has earned its economic standing in the world through innovation; electricity, the automobile, the computer, and the Internet to name a few. We also have a need for educated individuals to serve the community as doctors, nurses, and teachers to name a few. Throughout the years, many young men and women have turned to the military as a way to build a future for themselves. Service to country has prepared many of our youth to become responsible citizens, and instilled in them a love of country that is necessary in a healthy society. Education, when offered openly to all who will take advantage of the opportunity, has the potential to be the keystone to balanced equality in our nation. Expanding the definition of service beyond the military, and creating structured opportunities for community service in exchange for education would be a priority in my administration. For other great ideas about expanding education, see Will’s “Free Education for All.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Will Marre</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/free-college-education-for-all-americans/2008/10/15/comment-page-1/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Marre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/?p=259#comment-83</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your thoughtful comments regarding CitizenOne University.  Since this is a passion of mine I just wanted to respond.  I realize that capitalism is under siege right now because of the super greedy idiots of Wall Street.  All of us are disgusted by the blare of constant advertising.  But my view is that we can turn the engine of capitalism toward intentional human benefits without selling our souls.  The idea of advertising supported education is more like sponsorship.  Consider it like PBS programming sponsorship.  I also believe that there are many ways to enhance the learning experience of online learning like David’s suggestion of using video.  The BBC has warehouses of video archives of top flight educational documentaries that could be edited into compelling video for certain courses.  David’s other idea of $1000 student deposit which is earned back is downright awesome.  Maybe on top of it should $100 course deposit returned if a course is completed on time.

Of course the idea isn’t perfect, but it’s a start.  I just think we have to re-invent how education is accessed and earned in the 21st century.  Teaching students the way Greeks did it 3000 years ago is too expensive, too wasteful, and literally antiquated.  

It’s one of the very best things I can imagine.

Will Marre</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your thoughtful comments regarding CitizenOne University.  Since this is a passion of mine I just wanted to respond.  I realize that capitalism is under siege right now because of the super greedy idiots of Wall Street.  All of us are disgusted by the blare of constant advertising.  But my view is that we can turn the engine of capitalism toward intentional human benefits without selling our souls.  The idea of advertising supported education is more like sponsorship.  Consider it like PBS programming sponsorship.  I also believe that there are many ways to enhance the learning experience of online learning like David’s suggestion of using video.  The BBC has warehouses of video archives of top flight educational documentaries that could be edited into compelling video for certain courses.  David’s other idea of $1000 student deposit which is earned back is downright awesome.  Maybe on top of it should $100 course deposit returned if a course is completed on time.</p>
<p>Of course the idea isn’t perfect, but it’s a start.  I just think we have to re-invent how education is accessed and earned in the 21st century.  Teaching students the way Greeks did it 3000 years ago is too expensive, too wasteful, and literally antiquated.  </p>
<p>It’s one of the very best things I can imagine.</p>
<p>Will Marre</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/free-college-education-for-all-americans/2008/10/15/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 04:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/?p=259#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Will,
 
I will read more of your plan when I have more time, but here are some basic comments.
 
I agree that education is the basic ingredient needed to improve life. Of course, I’m biased, having two teachers as parents.
 
However two unfortunate turns have occurred recently that has put the United States in serious jeopardy of being left behind in the world of tomorrow.
 
The first is putting politics and profit ahead of truth. The Bush administration, and to a lesser extent, the Clinton administration ignored or denied scientific evidence because it was not convenient. The same is occurring all over the country where schools are being told to not teach evolution because it conflicts with the Biblical account of creation. What happened to separation of church and state?
 
The second is that our young population is enamored with the thought of instant riches and fame. The reality shows portraying ordinary young people becoming instant stars has left a world where the thought of working long and hard just doesn’t appeal to the young. Science is not glamorous. There are no instant riches or fame attached to it. We lack both the interest and the teachers capable of motivating our children to learn and pursue science as a career.
 
Unless we can instill the importance of science to our next generation, we are destined to decline in influence and wealth as a nation until we are an also-ran, not a world leader.
 
It is only with innovation and creativity that we will be able to forge a bright and promising future for our descendents.
 
Don
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,<br />
 <br />
I will read more of your plan when I have more time, but here are some basic comments.<br />
 <br />
I agree that education is the basic ingredient needed to improve life. Of course, I’m biased, having two teachers as parents.<br />
 <br />
However two unfortunate turns have occurred recently that has put the United States in serious jeopardy of being left behind in the world of tomorrow.<br />
 <br />
The first is putting politics and profit ahead of truth. The Bush administration, and to a lesser extent, the Clinton administration ignored or denied scientific evidence because it was not convenient. The same is occurring all over the country where schools are being told to not teach evolution because it conflicts with the Biblical account of creation. What happened to separation of church and state?<br />
 <br />
The second is that our young population is enamored with the thought of instant riches and fame. The reality shows portraying ordinary young people becoming instant stars has left a world where the thought of working long and hard just doesn’t appeal to the young. Science is not glamorous. There are no instant riches or fame attached to it. We lack both the interest and the teachers capable of motivating our children to learn and pursue science as a career.<br />
 <br />
Unless we can instill the importance of science to our next generation, we are destined to decline in influence and wealth as a nation until we are an also-ran, not a world leader.<br />
 <br />
It is only with innovation and creativity that we will be able to forge a bright and promising future for our descendents.<br />
 <br />
Don<br />
 </p>
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		<title>By: David Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/free-college-education-for-all-americans/2008/10/15/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>David Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 03:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/?p=259#comment-75</guid>
		<description>I am currently a physics instructor for three PHY 112 lab courses and one of the first individuals to graduate from an online high school. These experiences have given me deep insights into the new trend of online education. 

My experience thus far, shows me that while the internet and software in general allow us to communicate ideas cheaply, it also comes with a price in terms of quality. Computers can&#039;t judge the &quot;quality&quot; of a paper or the logic behind solving a math problem. As a result, they tend to simply &quot;ask for the answer&quot; and compare the value given to a number in their memory. Or worse, simply asks the student to answer a series of multiple choice questions.

These solutions fail students for two reasons. One they don&#039;t require students to thoroughly show their work (which means they can come to the right answer but have the wrong logic). Second, they often tell the student they are wrong when they are actually right (because of the order of calculations done in the problem, or a variation between the number of entered digits to a problem and the number of digits stored in the software). Granted, this technology is getting better all the time, but the overall flaw still remains.

All the same, all the power to you. There ARE several things that may be in your favor overall, but I believe the problem isn&#039;t getting the kids (students) involved in activities as much as forcing them to their rooms or even better our national library to  READ and PRACTICE problems. (Through this boredom great creativity and patience is forged)

1. I almost believe the sponsors are unnecessary and harm your overall goal. I would suggest contacting a group like Wikipedia with your idea. They get chaff for getting things wrong from time to time, but their value to the online educational environment is unmatched (In my own opinion). In fact they already have a Wikiversity and a Wikibooks project with some impressive results,

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Main_Page

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page

If you want to push for a free online education, why reinvent the wheel, check out what&#039;s already been done and try to build on it.

Actually another school comes to mind when I see this as well, MIT. Yep, at this website:

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm

they have a vast list of course materials for both the novice and the advanced student available for free! Granted, they&#039;re not all course videos for viewing, but this is a start.

I&#039;d personally recommend that if you were to build this up, use video instead of text and keep your students awake by implementing voice conversations in small groups. (If members won&#039;t participate they students should be able to report them anonymously).

Furthermore, if every test is a take-home test, your students are just going to look the information up in a book, or worse, use the search bar on the internet. That means you&#039;ll have to find a way to test their knowledge, not for testings sake, but to poke and prod them into studying in their room instead of going out to a party.

I might note that you can avoid trolling problems (where students who don&#039;t want to learn come online and disturb your classes or worse) by implementing a  safety deposit system. In this way, students who enroll at your university have to put down a $1000 safety deposit (this is cheaper than any university you&#039;ll find in the US). This money remains with the university until the student graduates and ensures that they will not disrupt classes ect. ect. Trolls won&#039;t pay this type of money to troll, and you&#039;ll have the source of your income. (Plus you should have them show up in person to register for classes, or tests to ensure their identity)

While the money will be returned to the student at the end of the four years (if they do not cause trouble &quot;on campus&quot;) the money is still in your hands for that time period. This can take care of your money problems (perhaps). To understand why, take a rough estimate of the number of students you are expecting on your web page and then multiply that number by a 1000. If you can convince a &quot;sponsor bank&quot; to give you a nice interest rate on those funds then you set up a win-win situation for everyone.

1. Your university gets funding from a set of money held within the bank for four years (I&#039;d say they owe you a nice interest rate given the amount of money you&#039;d be investing in their bank and the time period for the investment).

2. Your students get a free education (they get the money back at the end)

3. The bank gains a profit by charging others even higher interest rates while the money stays with them. (That&#039;s just how the cookie crumbles)

And everyone is happy! :)

NOTE: You might consider adding a completion incentive clause to this where the student must also forfeit all or a portion of the money if they drop out of school (or remain inactive for a long period of time). In the US, we have a major problem with students dropping out of college. Whether you like it or not, if a good portion of your students decide to be lazy and drop out and you keep the $1000, then ironically it could be of benefit to you. At the same time, this penalty would encourage students to stick it out and keep working towards their goals. If it isn&#039;t then perhaps  it wasn&#039;t important to them anyways. This is... almost a negative win-win. 

anyways, those are my thoughts.

Thank you,
David Evans</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently a physics instructor for three PHY 112 lab courses and one of the first individuals to graduate from an online high school. These experiences have given me deep insights into the new trend of online education. </p>
<p>My experience thus far, shows me that while the internet and software in general allow us to communicate ideas cheaply, it also comes with a price in terms of quality. Computers can&#8217;t judge the &#8220;quality&#8221; of a paper or the logic behind solving a math problem. As a result, they tend to simply &#8220;ask for the answer&#8221; and compare the value given to a number in their memory. Or worse, simply asks the student to answer a series of multiple choice questions.</p>
<p>These solutions fail students for two reasons. One they don&#8217;t require students to thoroughly show their work (which means they can come to the right answer but have the wrong logic). Second, they often tell the student they are wrong when they are actually right (because of the order of calculations done in the problem, or a variation between the number of entered digits to a problem and the number of digits stored in the software). Granted, this technology is getting better all the time, but the overall flaw still remains.</p>
<p>All the same, all the power to you. There ARE several things that may be in your favor overall, but I believe the problem isn&#8217;t getting the kids (students) involved in activities as much as forcing them to their rooms or even better our national library to  READ and PRACTICE problems. (Through this boredom great creativity and patience is forged)</p>
<p>1. I almost believe the sponsors are unnecessary and harm your overall goal. I would suggest contacting a group like Wikipedia with your idea. They get chaff for getting things wrong from time to time, but their value to the online educational environment is unmatched (In my own opinion). In fact they already have a Wikiversity and a Wikibooks project with some impressive results,</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Main_Page" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Main_Page</a></p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page</a></p>
<p>If you want to push for a free online education, why reinvent the wheel, check out what&#8217;s already been done and try to build on it.</p>
<p>Actually another school comes to mind when I see this as well, MIT. Yep, at this website:</p>
<p><a href="http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm</a></p>
<p>they have a vast list of course materials for both the novice and the advanced student available for free! Granted, they&#8217;re not all course videos for viewing, but this is a start.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d personally recommend that if you were to build this up, use video instead of text and keep your students awake by implementing voice conversations in small groups. (If members won&#8217;t participate they students should be able to report them anonymously).</p>
<p>Furthermore, if every test is a take-home test, your students are just going to look the information up in a book, or worse, use the search bar on the internet. That means you&#8217;ll have to find a way to test their knowledge, not for testings sake, but to poke and prod them into studying in their room instead of going out to a party.</p>
<p>I might note that you can avoid trolling problems (where students who don&#8217;t want to learn come online and disturb your classes or worse) by implementing a  safety deposit system. In this way, students who enroll at your university have to put down a $1000 safety deposit (this is cheaper than any university you&#8217;ll find in the US). This money remains with the university until the student graduates and ensures that they will not disrupt classes ect. ect. Trolls won&#8217;t pay this type of money to troll, and you&#8217;ll have the source of your income. (Plus you should have them show up in person to register for classes, or tests to ensure their identity)</p>
<p>While the money will be returned to the student at the end of the four years (if they do not cause trouble &#8220;on campus&#8221;) the money is still in your hands for that time period. This can take care of your money problems (perhaps). To understand why, take a rough estimate of the number of students you are expecting on your web page and then multiply that number by a 1000. If you can convince a &#8220;sponsor bank&#8221; to give you a nice interest rate on those funds then you set up a win-win situation for everyone.</p>
<p>1. Your university gets funding from a set of money held within the bank for four years (I&#8217;d say they owe you a nice interest rate given the amount of money you&#8217;d be investing in their bank and the time period for the investment).</p>
<p>2. Your students get a free education (they get the money back at the end)</p>
<p>3. The bank gains a profit by charging others even higher interest rates while the money stays with them. (That&#8217;s just how the cookie crumbles)</p>
<p>And everyone is happy! <img src='http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>NOTE: You might consider adding a completion incentive clause to this where the student must also forfeit all or a portion of the money if they drop out of school (or remain inactive for a long period of time). In the US, we have a major problem with students dropping out of college. Whether you like it or not, if a good portion of your students decide to be lazy and drop out and you keep the $1000, then ironically it could be of benefit to you. At the same time, this penalty would encourage students to stick it out and keep working towards their goals. If it isn&#8217;t then perhaps  it wasn&#8217;t important to them anyways. This is&#8230; almost a negative win-win. </p>
<p>anyways, those are my thoughts.</p>
<p>Thank you,<br />
David Evans</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Hogan</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/free-college-education-for-all-americans/2008/10/15/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/?p=259#comment-69</guid>
		<description>This concept is absolutely brilliant and comes at a time when it may be needed the most.   The level of higher education is at the lowest mark since the Great Depression for young Americans.  Compared to the other industrialized nations the USA ranks in the bottom third!  And our tuitions are in the top 10%. How did we let that happen?

Providing a tuition-free, virtual university education could be a turning point for the next generation.  Of course there is a cost to providing the best-of-class lectures and materials.  But these could easily be off-set by allowing businesses that have a vested interest in the educational process advertise on the university website.  Such as Apple and HP.  Others could sponsor classes that tie into their markets, e.g. chemistry/pharmaceuticals, engineering/manufacturing, computers/IT.  While others just might want to hire the best and brightest, e.g. Cisco and Google. 

Great idea - now lets get some follow up actions to make it happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This concept is absolutely brilliant and comes at a time when it may be needed the most.   The level of higher education is at the lowest mark since the Great Depression for young Americans.  Compared to the other industrialized nations the USA ranks in the bottom third!  And our tuitions are in the top 10%. How did we let that happen?</p>
<p>Providing a tuition-free, virtual university education could be a turning point for the next generation.  Of course there is a cost to providing the best-of-class lectures and materials.  But these could easily be off-set by allowing businesses that have a vested interest in the educational process advertise on the university website.  Such as Apple and HP.  Others could sponsor classes that tie into their markets, e.g. chemistry/pharmaceuticals, engineering/manufacturing, computers/IT.  While others just might want to hire the best and brightest, e.g. Cisco and Google. </p>
<p>Great idea &#8211; now lets get some follow up actions to make it happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Tuton</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/free-college-education-for-all-americans/2008/10/15/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Tuton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/?p=259#comment-67</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t there enough bombardment of advertisers in unwanted places?  I over paid for a movie ticket last week, then had to site though 10 minutes of ads before the feature.  Nobody likes that.  

The last thing we need is for them to access any stage of education.  They WILL find a way to further their cause.  After all, it’s about the bottom line for them.  If you’re Hersheys you have to ask yourself &quot;Why would we pay for this?  Can we make a profit?”  This is not the direction we want to take education.  Unbiased free thinkers, who are left to form their own ideas is what the nation needs.  Not a mutant hybrid generation of brand addicted tag hags.

You can bet Visa/Master card will be first in line to &quot;educate&quot; your college students.


You can bet Visa/Master card will be first in line to &quot;educate&quot; your college students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t there enough bombardment of advertisers in unwanted places?  I over paid for a movie ticket last week, then had to site though 10 minutes of ads before the feature.  Nobody likes that.  </p>
<p>The last thing we need is for them to access any stage of education.  They WILL find a way to further their cause.  After all, it’s about the bottom line for them.  If you’re Hersheys you have to ask yourself &#8220;Why would we pay for this?  Can we make a profit?”  This is not the direction we want to take education.  Unbiased free thinkers, who are left to form their own ideas is what the nation needs.  Not a mutant hybrid generation of brand addicted tag hags.</p>
<p>You can bet Visa/Master card will be first in line to &#8220;educate&#8221; your college students.</p>
<p>You can bet Visa/Master card will be first in line to &#8220;educate&#8221; your college students.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/free-college-education-for-all-americans/2008/10/15/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtrocket.com/blog/?p=259#comment-65</guid>
		<description>I love this idea!  Granted, it is said that people don&#039;t value something as much if they don&#039;t pay for it, but your model, which requires &quot;sweat equity&quot; is awesome. 
 
The fact that young people who don&#039;t have rich mommies and daddies get out of school overwhelmed by student loan debt (or in the near future - probably won&#039;t even have that option due to the credit crisis) is certainly not a &quot;great equalizer&quot;  

There are a few tuition-free colleges out there, like Berea College, but they are very hard to get into.   Check out this article:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/060910/18free.htm

I am actually very hopeful about the &quot;new economy&quot; which is beginning to lean more toward barter and other types of &quot;energy exchange&quot;.   This &quot;crisis&quot; is actually a good thing, which is going to teach people to live differently, more simply, within their means, and to move toward cooperation rather than competition and greed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this idea!  Granted, it is said that people don&#8217;t value something as much if they don&#8217;t pay for it, but your model, which requires &#8220;sweat equity&#8221; is awesome. </p>
<p>The fact that young people who don&#8217;t have rich mommies and daddies get out of school overwhelmed by student loan debt (or in the near future &#8211; probably won&#8217;t even have that option due to the credit crisis) is certainly not a &#8220;great equalizer&#8221;  </p>
<p>There are a few tuition-free colleges out there, like Berea College, but they are very hard to get into.   Check out this article:<br />
<a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/060910/18free.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/060910/18free.htm</a></p>
<p>I am actually very hopeful about the &#8220;new economy&#8221; which is beginning to lean more toward barter and other types of &#8220;energy exchange&#8221;.   This &#8220;crisis&#8221; is actually a good thing, which is going to teach people to live differently, more simply, within their means, and to move toward cooperation rather than competition and greed.</p>
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